Stop Sexual Harassment in Alcoholics Anonymous Meetings. This happens to men and women.
Write us at makeaasafer@gmail.com and we will send you either flyers or pdf of pamphlets you can print yourself. Put a safety statement at the beginning of your meeting. 13 stepping is a Bullshit name for sexual harassment and know that if you are touched it’s sexual battery. A crime is a crime in or out of AA.
Are there any rules from WSO that I can hang at my AA hall regarding sexual harassment?
Yes.
Contact me at makeaasafer@gmail.com and I will send you some. Or email you pdf’s.
janel,
how’s it going where you are?
stop13stepinaa. makeaasafer@gmail.com
AT this point General Service WorldServiceBoard and GENERAL Service Office is leaving it up to the groups to do what they want which is a crying shame. So I can send you what about 8 meetings are using ( we read a safety statemnt right after the preamble, and I can send you the posters we made and put up. The Spanish speaking community is using the pamphlet, they enlarged it and are putting it up in 21 rooms. On every wall. A woman was harassed for 8 years , including physically grabbed. SHe finally punched him in the face. I met her at The GS forum in Torrance this summer. where I shared what we had created. ABout 40 meetings are using the literature Make AA Safer Pamphlet. See it on my blog
write to me directly at makeaasafer@gmail.com and we can discuss further
I have heard from Florida, Mass, San Fran, Seattle, Utah, Tenn, Michigan, Vermont, to name a few other states besides Cali that are having serious problems.
I have been physically restrained, kissed, grabbed, groped and told inappropriate sexual jokes. I have done nothing to provoke this type of behavior, in fact, the “Attack” typically comes from behind! I can’t go to a meeting and enjoy the speaker without constantly looking over my shoulder. I have reported these incidences to the committee (by Proxy) and was called a drama queen and they actually asked what I look like (pretty,plain,fat,thin etc). No matter what ethnicity, religion, economic status or how you look negates the fact that this is against the law. The committee decided to table it and I took 2 weeks off from the meeting to regain emotional strength. When I came back, I was grabbed from behind and turned to the side so he could hug up against my breasts! He towered over me and thrust me towards him three times before he let me go!!!! This occurred last night (3-21-11) @ POP meeting in Phx Az. I have seen this guy, but didn’t know him. The disturbing issue is he knows of/and my boyfriend!! Since this has happened at least ten times and I don’t feel safe; I have decided not to attend this meeting any longer. If and/or when the committee decides to address this issue I can’t attend; I could be seriously injured…they are getting more aggressive.
I did suggest (by proxy) to the committee to make an announcement at the begining of the meeting to respect other’s boundaries etc. It was shot down due to the fear of losing new comers. They are very vulnerable and would benefit from an announcement concerning harassment.
I would like posters to hang at POP and maybe it will become safe in the future for me and other women/men. Please send me them ASAP!!!!!!
i will send you poster you can print it.
I can send you pamphlets they are great to hand out. Do you have any other sober members who are like minded?
ALso you can go make a plan. if grabs you and you tell him not to…dial 911 and press charges on assault.
I had a guy in PRASSA tell me that happened in a meeting. The police came into the meeting and the predator punched the police in the face. Needless to say, he got arressted.
CAll the police. GO to the police. Sexual Harassment is against the law in an AA meeting, in the grocery store, at the Bank. He does not get to hug and grab you there because its an AA meeting. This crap needs to stop. Do what you can.
Imagine that, an organization formed in the relative dark ages of the last century is going to leave it up to “group conscience.” The same goes for getting anything else changed. I heard it laughingly repeated: “You know, son? (to fckd up sponsee) I don’t like what it says right der in da big book, either. Lets start a petition to get all the AA members to agree on a change to the Original Text.”
ForrlyKnownAs,
SO true. Thanks for stopping by! Amazingly enough because of ST site I am realizing there are hundreds of us out there still going to some meetings that are really fed up. So soon , better non powerless based, non culty, non labeling support groups will be formed. I know because I am creating one. It will be self supporting, no Sexual predators will be welcome. No courts sending people to us. No sponsorship guru crap. I’ll keep everyone posted.
Fmrly,
I like your idea of getting AA ‘s to petition NY to change original text. It could be very effective one group at a time , to stop sending NY GSO any moneys until they help effect change. But write a letter to tell NY that we wont send anymore money till change begins. Write a new text. the BB is archaic. Outdated and ridiculous. EVen ANcient Buddhism updates their books so that people of today will be interested and so does the new CHristian Bible’s get updated. AA ‘s thinking that the reader needs to just accept it this way , is such arrogance on it’s part.
I still haven’t received the posters, pamphlets and what is read at AA meetings (pertaining to sexual harassment & safety) after the preamble; I need them (ASAP–PLEASE). I am addressing the committee in a week and still in need of these items. They are to be integrated in my presentation as possible solutions; otherwise a blind eye will be cast my way. I need visual aids and an example of a scripted warning to bring the presentation to a conclusion with viable solutions that can be implemented immediately. I will be forever grateful to anyone who can help me obtain this material; I’m running short on time.
Update to my situation: I have to go thru physical therapy (to strengthen an old shoulder injury) before I can take self defense classes, which has been recommended by the police and an attorney. A lot to go though for a meeting!!!!!!!!! Also, police said if no one witnesses the harassment/assault and I am not visibly injured; they can’t do anything. The officer said, “It would be his word against mine”!
I need your address. Or you can down load a pdf file of all of them and print it out.
If it is easier I will mail by fed ex to you today to get allthis for your meeting
I sent you a prviate email
call me write me there or at makeaasafer@gmail.com
Speak up . Speak out,
Empowered…..not powerless!
Wow, i am having a horrible time with a predator in the halfway house i was manager in! This was my house owner! he purposely brought young, beating up woman to the house that were coming straight from the streets no money to move in and he offered them sexual favors for rent for the first week! he is hurting so many woman this way and should be locked up and i dont no what i can do to get the message around to not go to his establishments! His name is RICHIE MARTINS!!! Please any advise would help!!! im located in south florida
I emailed you directly with my phone number. I run this blog.
thanks.
What city are you in? Contact me directly if you want at makeaasafer@gmail.com
ALso you can contact your Attorney General and file a complaint. Contact the city and file a complaint with Code Enforcement.
What city in South FLorida?
Hi, I am in the AA program in Canada and we have experienced unwanted sexual attention at meetings. It has become a problem and I am interested in getting the pamphlet on makeaasafer. Can this please be emailed to me. We are in need of help here.
Jeannine- Hi Sorry to hear this but it’s all over the place. Are you aware that 3rd level sex offenders and violent criminals are being sentenced to AA meetings. I can email it to you. contact me at makeaasafer@gmail.com ok.
What Carolyn is saying is very true. I beg…urge you, forget what you think is anonymity. AA members are not above the law. If someone did what this person you are having trouble with was in a PTA meeting, a city council meeting, in a grocery store. What would you do? GO to the police file a report. Begin a paper trial.
Or just email me and I will pdf them to you and or you can snail mail some very nice ones I made. They are made with slick green magazine quality paper…very nice.
Or just punch him in the face then call the police. This is what a Spanish speaking woman told me she did after being sexual harassed and grabbed in a meeting for 7 years.
Be courageous! Don’t take any of their bullshit. They are using AA and it’s traditions to hide behind. The stories are very very bad and they are getting worse all the time. There are actually men coming to AA just to prey and take advantage. Have no pity or mercy.
DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THEM. They are criminals taking advantage of a society and culture that is secret and easy for them to play their game.
There game is criminal. SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN THE USA is Against the LAW. Be strong.
Click on link for Make AA Safer Pamphlet side 2 http://stop13stepinaa.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/5-5×8-5_fin_025.pdf
Jeannine,
Many of us have been victims of sexual crimes from one extreme to the other (I’m an extreme case). IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO BE PHYSICALLY TOUCHED OR ASSAULTED etc. The link below is to the laws for Canada concerning sexual deviance in any capacity. They seem to be a lot more stringent than that of the U.S. Go to the Constable if they won’t come to the scene and file a complaint/report (every time it happens-you need this for future use).
Also, in the U.S, anonymity doesn’t mean one covers the offenders identity-that is OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. Anonymity IS not telling your neighbor that her doctor attends AA. Not to hide criminals…big difference!! If you have any questions just holler. YOU HAVE RIGHTS INSIDE AND OUTSIDE AA. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
http://web.viu.ca/crim/sutton.htm
I, Iike Jeannine above, am a Canadian. But this is one story that I doubt you would have read here. My beautiful lady of 9 years, walked out on me, (on our 9th anniversary, Jan 11th, 2012) shortly after starting to go to AA meetings. I do NOT have a problem, and neither does she. She saw her moderate drinking as a possible “following in the footsteps” of her mother, who was a raging alcoholic. Although everyone in the family insisted that she had no problem, she sought out support from AA, got herself a sponsor, and started attending meetings. Now she has left, handing back the ring she got last year as we were to be married this summer. Apparently, she has met some guy at these meetings that provides her with “stimulating and intellectual conversation”, and I don’t know what to do. All her stuff is still in our house,………it’s like she’s still here. I have read that there are men that prey on new comers (13 Steppers), particularly vulnerable female attendees, who know just what to say to woo these women away from whatever scenario they are in. My lady has totally shut down, with no phone calls or even emails now. I am not even being given the opportunity for a rational discussion to see what went wrong. And believe me………………there was NOTHING wrong, right up until the day she left. In one email reaching out to her, I asked her “Where would AA be if a person came to them for help and they turned them down, not giving them a second chance?” I have gotten no response from that email, or any others since.
I do not even know where my woman is. When I did speak with her last Friday when she came to the house to pick up a few things, I asked if there was anyone else and she said “Yes”. I then asked if she met this person at the AA meetings she has been attending and she again said “Yes”. So there you have it. Some sweet talkin’ SOB has zeroed in on my lady, fed her all kinds of lines (because apparently they know just what to say) and stolen my woman and destroyed me. I’m broken hearted and only want my woman back. I had 9 wonderful years with her and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. Is there any way that I could find out where she is attending these meetings? Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to contact her, or her sponsor and make her see the error of her ways? Please, anyone…………..this is killing me and I’m reaching out to anyone that would be able to put my and her lives back together.
Mark, Yes we can help you find a meeting she might be at . Google AA meetings in your or her area.
I am so sorry for you, but this is very common. Beware she will act like a cult member. Its weird how AA gets in people’s brains. AFter being together 9 years you must know her family. Can you call them?
We had a thread on http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com where there were many family members and loved ones that talked about losing their spouses to AA and running off with them.
also check out http://www.orange-papers.org write to me directly…makeaasafer@gmail.com
Mark,
There is always an option to have her followed by a female who can pose as a newcomer to AA. She could get very close to her (AA members love to recruit people and “Help” them) and find out quite a bit. You can at least see what you are up against. I know a wonderful man who went through this very same thing after decades of marriage and two children. It’s just heart breaking that AA is anti-FAMILY!!! My best to you.
Carolyn- Awesome idea.
I thank you all for your responses and suggestions. Unfortunately I received an email from her late last night, and she reassured me that there was no other man on the scene, which I believe at this point. The rest of the email outlined what or where she was at in her mind and what she was dealing with on a personal level. But then it came to point # 7 which simply stated said “Nothing can be said to change my decision in this matter, I am happy with my choice to leave you and to give up alcohol.” Not only was that the final nail in the coffin, but one driven through my heart as well. I have conceded to the fact that she is gone and not coming back, I have decided to be the better person and make this move out of the house as un-traumatic as possible for both of us.
Now, having said that, and after everything I’ve read, I truly believe that AA has somehow gotten inside her head and messed things up. Since I have not had any involvement with these freaks, then I’m at a loss to comment any further. I’m sure that you people have more experience with this than I do. But I know my woman, and when she said what she did in last night’s email, I knew the game was over and I had lost. Thank you for the kind words of support. Unfortunately the ideas came probably a few weeks too late.
Cheers
Mark- Wow, I am very very sorry for you and your situation. You are always welcome here to blog!
massive
Mark,
I am really sorry for your loss. Unfortunately, AA “Recruiters and Sponsors” are good at breaking up families. I have seen it time and time again. Once they “ALL” (believe me it is more than one individual manipulating her every thought and decision) have their hooks in a “Candidate” it’s hard to shake them; even us strong ones. They are like wolves or lions waiting to move in for the kill and the vultures and piranhas finish them off . They have slogans to degrade or quiet them from asking questions then punish & shun when one doesn’t adhere to the groups demands and wishes. It is a very sick emotional game of tag they play with the newcomer. It sickens me that AA can’t be straight forward with the newcomer and let them decide if the program is right for them. They ensure the longevity of the groups existence upon emotional abuse of the newcomer (new blood) to sustain the group. They open her up emotionally and left raw until she is ready to “Let go and let God” take care of her, which makes her extremely dependent upon the group for help. By this point they have stripped her of identity, will, self esteem and initiative to balk…..she’s an AA robot. Again, I’m very sorry for your loss and I wish the best to you. I thought you might want a little insight of what happened to you beloved.
Carolyn- this is so true. I was once a true believer and it caused problems with my ex husband years ago. He hated that I went to meetings and discussed my private problems in an open room with strangers.
He was right. And a few months ago I had to call him to tell him so. Boy was he shocked!!!
My DAD also hated that I spent so much time with AA members and at meetings. He was right after all.
I was so angry about this aspect of my years in AA Carolyn when I first left. With time it is fading a bit at a time.
Evil do ers they are!!!!
Thank you Carolyn for your candid input. If I may ask, around what “step” level of involvement with AA does the member begin to start casting doubts on their lives and the lives of those they are with?
Mark,
Immediately they are told that, “Their best thinking got you here”, “You have to change your way of thinking”, “You need to be Powerless”, “You are in DENIAL”, “Few people have the imagination to see reality”, “Let go let God” “Meetings are a checkup from the neck up”, “Keep it simple stupid”, “You are not alone”, “You never graduate from AA it’s for life”, “You will drink, die or end up in a mental institution if you leave AA” etc.. Worst of all you are considered a “Normie” (able to consume alcohol normally) and very dangerous for an alcoholic-(especially one who really wasn’t one), which they accuse her of being in DENIAL of her severe health situation.
Here are actual published brainwashing tactics AA uses.
AA Thought of the day: July 26, 2011 Topic “Instincts” and daily reading assignment from Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions p. 114:
Instincts-
“We find that our old attitudes toward our instincts need to undergo drastic revisions…We have learned that the satisfaction of instincts cannot be the sole end and aim of our lives.
If we place instincts first, we have the cart before the horse; we shall be pulled backward into disillusionment.”
Topic: “Acceptance” from the book of Alcoholics Anonymous aka their Bible; p. 417; also, as published on May 29, 2011 in AA Thought of the day:
Acceptance-
“And acceptance is the answer to ALL my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation–some fact of my life–unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God’s world by mistake. Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober; unless I accept life completely on life’s terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as what needs to be changed in me and my attitudes.”
Topic: “Unique” from the book of Alcoholics Anonymous, p. 450 & as published on May 26, 2011.
Unique-
“I genuinely believed that I was different until MUCH later, when I had what I NOW know to be my first spiritual awakening; that I was an alcoholic and I didn’t have to drink! I also learned that alcoholism, as an equal opportunity illness, does not discriminate–is not restricted to race, creed, or geography. At last I was released from the bondage of my own uniqueness.”
AA not only has your girlfriend convinced she is a full blown alcoholic in denial, but her thinking is all wrong because of “Wet brain” and they challenge every decision she makes that isn’t AA APPROVED or ACCEPTABLE to her group. If she doesn’t agree with their RECOMMENDATIONS, then she is in denial, doing her will and not God’s will, she is not living one day at a time etc. If that doesn’t work then they shun you-the group as a whole will ignore you, talk badly about you, spread gossip until the member finally gives in to the DEMANDS!
**Forgot an important element. Initially the group will “Love Bomb” the newcomer. They make you feel so welcomed, they even state, “You are the most important person in this room”. This is how they start to reel you in. You are also told at the beginning (after the love fest) to shut up and not say anything-you haven’t been sober long enough to know anything worth sharing (they start to put you in your place). Questions are a huge NO-NO; I had so many and they all went unanswered-”Pray on it, “You’re in denial, “It is what it is” etc. They don’t have answers to nonsense and you can’t work an unworkable program!!!
You can see the level of emotional abuse that transpires in those room. Ironically, the sponsors (who run your life) don’t have degrees in Therapy, Counseling, a Doctorate in Behavioral Science or a Medical license. They just scream orders at you. When you are the only one “acting up” and “Not Accepting” a program that has worked for all the members in the group and has been around for 75 years-you are the problem whom obviously doesn’t want it bad enough.
I could go on for years, however, I believe this will help you to understand what you’re against and are considered the enemy-unless you join.
I’m truly sorry for your loss and I wish you the best. If you have any questions; please don’t hesitate to ask.
Mark,
I can only imagine how difficult this is for you and I am so sorry.
I just want to add to Caroyn’s excellent post; chilling but so true.
Once you become a member of AA and label yourself an alcoholic, which mandatory if you plan to stay: Immediately you are considered to be suffering from a Spiritual Malady:
“”Negative feelings and emotion, remorse, guilt, shame, shattered self-esteem, self doubt, even self loathing; loneliness, alienation, apartnes, isolation, depression and feelings of hopelessness, futility and a pervasive sense of meaningless of life.”
Everyone is the same, no exception and if you dont admit to this spiritual disease, you are in denial. Now begins the dissecting of your past using the 12 steps.
In this process, in order to become spiritually fit you must share all the sorted details of your past with another human being (in most cases that would be your sponsor) and apologize to everyone you have harmed in your entire life. They preach that the steps and the program should be the basis for the rest of your life. You begin to feel guilty if you have any personal secrets because one of the many slogans in AA is “Your Are Only As Sick As Your Secrets”.
I speak from experience and I want of to say that Ive had to work at overcoming the symptoms of the spiritual malady that the steps and the program claim to heal, after leaving AA over a year ago.
Here is an article describing the spiritual malady and the program from an AA perspective:
http://www.aaroundtable.com/literature/malady.htm
Once again, thank you all for the input in my situation. Being in unfamiliar waters is not a nice feeling. So let me take a moment to update you on this situation.
I thought (foolishly) that I could get my beloved to come to her senses and think this through. But apparently that door had already been closed for the last time. She encouraged me to contact her sponsor, which I initially baulked at, but in order to seek out more answers than what I had been given, I did call her, and found out some interesting things.
This female sponsor, who has been “dry” for 23 years, sounded very genuine and sincere and actually concerned about my relationship and how it had taken a turn for the worse. What almost floored me was when I heard that she (AA) told my lady that AA stresses that newcomers do NOT make any radical lifestyle changes in their first year of membership, including leaving a relationship. When I queried my lady on this, she simply told me that it was already too late, her mind had been made up and our relationship had run its course.
Shattered for the final time, I realized that AA had actually gotten inside her head, as she told me that she found AA to be spiritually uplifting, more so than the Baha’i faith that she had be investigating. It was David trying to fight Goliath, and poor David got crushed. I still can’t get my head around the fact that this whole thing has taken a person that was so loving and caring only a few weeks ago, and turned her into a bitter, cold and callous individual that I’ve never seen over our 9 years together. As much as it breaks my heart to say this, maybe it’s better that this happened now rather than after the planned wedding this summer.
At this point, I can only wish her well on her spiritual flight to that mythical God like plain where she will find the true meaning of life for all times.
Cheers Mark
Mark,
Thanks for the update. Your right; it’s good that you found out now. What ever your girlfriend is searching for, I dont believe she will find it in AA. She will either come to her senses or spend a life time in the program, trying to figure it all out. There was a blogger this morning on “leavinaa” who spent 4yrs there and was determined to understand what made no sense. For many, I think ego interferes with admitting that. Until she became so depressed, she was suicidal. It happen to me. If you stay, you must be willing to accept and agree with everything that you hear or you will be shunned and accused of “not getting it” (a tactic frequently used).
I wouldn’t give that sponsor too much credit. She has been in the Cult for a long time. Twenty Three years of brain washing. The fact that she recommended no life style changes; Im almost certain advising your beloved not to get married was part of her advise.
Once again Mark, Im so sorry for your loss. Please come back anytime you feel like talking.
Hey there… really provocative, and in places, heart wrenching conversation topic!
I was curious, is the cartoon at the top of the page a joke? You don’t condemn all dating between people in support groups, do you? If people make a romantic connection, there’s nothing implicitly wrong with that… would you agree? Is the cartoon meant to be satirical, or do you actually think asking someone for a date is always sexual harassment? I hope this smattering of questions gives you the general idea of my inquiry.
Romance and sex can be a real, healthy relief for people, whether they are in recovery or not, so to condemn it wholesale is absurd, right? I’m curious what your stance is on that–or should people just be made to die in sexual frustration?
I do not condone unsolicited hugging, touching, or lewd comments, and have seen it happen in AA. But, the members often become friends, and among friends, flirting can be fun and healthy, right? I’ve also been somewhat harassed–”hit on”–by gay guys… and it sucks. But… are you against dating in general, in recovery, i guess is my question?
Thanks.
Andy
Andy,
The cartoon … is to make a dark subject just a bit lighter. I get too many horror stories. WHat some AA men and (women too) think is cute and funny is actually sexual harassment in the “REAL WORLD”. A little is fine if both parties are willingly flirting and no one is taken advantage of the other ( man with 20 years sober hitting on 23 year old new girl with 33 days. ) same goes for cougar type older women which I have seen in action in LA.
I think some of it is okay. But when it comes to young people it you ” shit where you eat” it can be devastating. I can attest from my own early experience. I eventually swore off dating AA men in my early years. It really made my AA fellowship with the guys who became my life long friends great!
When I went through a divorce years later I met a great man in a meeting but I had met him in other circles I was in. Most men in AA I found were so inappropriate even if they had lots of years. They didn’t know how to ask a woman out on a proper date, or even ask for my number in a nice way. I was shocked by their immaturity and attitude and inexperience with How to “Really Date”. ( these were guys in their 40′s or older with over 20 years of sobriety. AA and it’s steps does not teach good marriage or dateline skills at all. In fact AA after many years makes many people ….I hate to say it …but very self centered in the way they communicate.
The few years I was single I made a point to not date in AA. That was a good Idea. Then I decided to date if I met someone great. The first guy I met I got ripped off financially, he slept with 3 other women and lied to all of us and hurt my kids. He was a real asshole. I got over him but then I met a great guy a few years later after that so not every one is a sick, sick, sick, however, the well is getting deep with sex offenders coming to 12 step meeting just to prey.
I think AA is a scary place now. And I hear from some guys that some women can be psychos. It’s a real crap shoot. And personally, I think AA is a cult now and I hate all the literature so…
Andy, What you believe to be true, and the facts can be totally different. Dating within AA (which personally I find very unacceptable from a healing point………….if that’s what they’re really there for) is NOT what a recovering person needs, especially if that person is already involved with another person. (my case…..so enuf said)
To all others here, it’s been a while, so let me update you on my situation. After repeatedly asking my “ex” for answers to question I believed after 9 years should be answered, and not getting any, I sought out answers on my own. With the assistance of friends and family, I found out the true story of the demise of my “loving” relationship, and it’s not pretty. My woman met this guy at an AA meeting, starting to have regular “coffee chats” with him, right under my nose, and eventually decided that the grass was greener on the other side and left me, after 9 years. So for all intent and purpose, she was screwing around on me, and I put all the fault on AA for this. There are other factors in this story, such as a family history of mental illness, to which her own family has informed me that she is just that and going through a breakdown. That doesn’t mean that I don’t hold AA 100% accountable for all that has transpired.
I’m a firm believer in KARMA. Any statements that I have previously made about wishing her well on her search for happiness, I hereby revoke. Although I don’t wish her any ill or misfortune, KARMA will take care of all that for me, and given enough time, she will screw up and it will bite her in the ass something fierce. I only hope that God allows me to see this rightful vengence.
Cheers Mark
Mark- sorry to hear this story, but AA is full of this kind of stuff. AA’s getting together to have coffee calling it program…fellowship…and before you know it….it turns to something else.
So very hurtful I know.
Hello. I am so glad I found this website. I have been going to AA meetings, on and off for the last three months. It’s the steadiest I’ve been able to attend. I like being in the group… but it’s true, they do break you down (your will) and the insecurity that came from not being able to trust myself has made me very insecure and vulnerable. I had a problem but have been trying to get better for the last two years. Luckily I have been able to manage the past year to stay sober, but doing it the AA way is pretty hard for me. I feel so vulnerable. Men do harass me and it’s pretty disturbing. I am not used to being touched, rubbed and hugged and having all that type of attention from men. It’s wrong and it needs to stop. The thought of it now makes me cringe. I want therapy and to find another way to build my confidence. Thanks for making this website.
LP -welcome!
Sorry to hear about the sexual harassment. Its almost always there in mixed meetings. I would say attend women’s meetings but I hate the literature now, the labeling and the antiquated program from 1936.
Smart REcovery and Secular Organizations for Sobriety has meetings and groups. The aura of friendship permeates AA. If you don’t speak their speak, they can get pretty cold pretty fast.
Thanks for posting. You can just tell them to stay away. If they don’t, you can tell them you will call the police.
Thank you, Massive, for the hard work you are doing to raise awareness with this issue and for creating materials to provide safety guidelines for meetings. I have 2 years in AA and attend in a South American country. From the first meeting I had unsolicited attention from very dubious characters that I would never want to touch, hug or kiss me in any social context. I was told, by a woman member, that I was being over-sensitive and that it was my problem. However, I was also told by my sponser to watch out for X, Y and Z person who would “probably try and have sex with me”. I wondered then as I wonder now, why the onus was on vulnerable women to ensure a safe experience and not on the group or the members exhibiting blatently predatory behaviour. I would always dash out after a meeting to avoid getting stuck in the corridor with over-friendly old-timers with wandering hands. The same female sponser who warned me to be careful, then ended up having sex with a young man who was getting treatment for a psychiatric condition and was new to AA. I saw other very dodgy men hovering around women new to meetings and trying to hug them or literally ranting in their frightened faces. Needless to say, those women did not come back. But why was this tolerated? I stepped in whenever I have saw this and told these men to back off. I am now helping to coordinate a small new group in a rural location. Recently I have noticed middle-aged men arriving to this location from other AA groups in the hope of dating young women new to the group. Some of these men have stop taking medicine for serious psychiatric conditions on the advice of their sponser ( a common and dangerously irresponsible trend in AA) and are very unwell, expecting help at 3am in the morning. Others have violent criminal histories and “share” about masturbating about members of the group, send unwanted texts proclaiming love and offering “spiritual advice” etc. I am unwilling to put my personal safety at risk nor that of any other woman coming to AA meetings for the sake of solidarity or “service” and will be terminating my involvement with any AA group as I don’t see any sane support on addressing this issue coming from the larger AA groups in the capital. I have walked out of a large group when a man was joking about rape and people laughed, just as they all snigger when men say how much they love a female “drunk”. The emphasis on being powerless does nothing to help women and men build dignified boundaries and healthy self-esteem. I am glad to see that there are better alternatives out there such as SMART recovery and will use this myself and recommend better resources to the remaining female members of the group.
OMG ! Im horrified. I know we need to Skype. I’m working right now with end of year stuff but I will write more later. Great to see you standing up for yourself and other women.
Caroline . can you cut and paste this post over to my other blog http://www.leavingaa.com or is it okay if I put it over there where others who are like minded will see it.
Nice replies in return of this matter with real arguments and
telling all concerning that.
Hi bancuri noi, Welcome. !!!