A blogger posted this on the blog here and I am hoping to bring it into the light.
PLEASE, PLEASE if you have been raped by an AA member you must go to the police. He does not get to rape you . He will rape someone else. Anonymity has nothing to do with breaking the law. This is not what any of the traditions mean. AA literature is NOT THE LAW. AA IS NOT THE SKULL & BONES Society folks. AA’s writings were written in the 1940’s when rapists were not allowed alone with blacks and gays and prostitutes.
This what was posted:
There is going to be an AA Safety “workshop” put on by the two Districts in Lexington, Kentucky AA. I found this out very recently. I was also told that this workshop is in reaction to a woman being raped locally by another member. People I know also know the identities of the rapist and the victim, and went so far as to tell me I’ve been in a meeting with the rapist and probably know him as well; but they hide behind the misused concept of anonymity and will not tell me or anyone else who this person is. It appears though that the idea of CYA for safety is becoming more visible. I am hoping some good can come of it, at least the idea of there being a problem is starting to surface.
Stop13stepinaa's Blog 
Massive – a side question for you if I may? Has AA really lost that many members in the past three years? I’m not saying or implying that you are wrong, I am just surprised as I remember back in my meeting days how gung ho so many people at so many meetings were. Good to hear of people bailing though – very good to hear of this.
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Stanton Peele said he knew someone who kept track of the numbers. He said it’s going from 1.2 million to 800k
I have personally seen many meetings in Los Angeles shrinking by 80% or being closed !
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I personally saw the rodeo meeting go from. 300 pp in 2011 to 40 pp last December 2013 . I have a long list I’ll tell you tomorrow ! Thanks for asking
Goodnight !
Orange is the new black …
AA is the dying program ..,
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It’s not right the women are being treated inappropriately and taken advantage of when they are at weak points in their lives and whether or not AA has helped anyone – something that is very debatable if you do some online research – it’s not OK that this is going on, what Massive is exposing. There needs to either be a serious overhaul in the way AA handles itself in general OR perhaps just scraping the “program” for good.
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I do agree that women being treated inappropriTELY ANS /OR TAKEN ADVANTAGE OS wrong AND OFFENDERS SHOULD BE PROSECUTED. hOWEVER, i HAVE BEEN SOBER 21 YEARS IN AA..The steps are life savers. Those that are “Hiding”in AA to prey on the vulnerable wouldn’t find 1 million $$ if you hid it in the Big Book…Those of us that are alive because of the PROGRAM of AA, are grateful.
There does need to be some sort of screening process for predators. Suggestions?
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We don’t care how many years you’re sober your time here is not a badge that you can wear so that you can talk it down to us
This is not an AA meeting
This is a blog for people who have been harmed. Have you been harmed?
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Al
You are sober because you did not pick up a drink in a is not some man behind the curtain in the wizard of Oz it’s keeping you sober you have done it
Why don’t you give yourself credit?
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AL AA is shrinking at alarming rates and if there was no DUI coercion and no rehab referrals AA would be the 1 10th the size it is currently. I don’t need to explain …the proof is in the pudding.
We have revisited meetings that were once huge 3 years ago and there are 30 pp in them , not 300…another there were 110 now 12pp.
Get off this site. This is not a place to debate how great AA is or how much you love it. This is a site for those who have been harmed by sexual predatory behavior in the rooms .
This blog is not for you !!! so go away. You are banned.
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I understand you’ve been harmed. But to set to destroy something that has save countless lives is so wrong.
Hate the player not the game
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AA has NOT saved countless lives. Despite the rare “vital spiritual experiences” claimed by Jung in the BB page 27, the recovery rate without AA is no worse than in AA. If anything, AA CAUSES SUICIDES (see my May 27, 2013 comment) and is thus a net negative in “saving” lives.
I hate “the game” of Alcoholics Anonymous because it allows so many “players” to go about their criminal acts, and anyone who notices and says something to the old-timers is told “I don’t know about you, but I have to keep MY side of the street clean by taking these Steps and working THE Program of Alcoholics Anonymous. And I hope you’re not TERMINALLY UNIQUE, like those alcoholics whose funerals I’ve attended.”
Read the pamphlet I linked to in my earlier comment. Watch the trailer for Monica’s 13th Step Film. Read James Christopher’s first book “How To Stay Sober: Recovery Without Religion” and Ken Ragge’s book and Charles Bufe’s book. Then tell me everything is hunky dory in AA.
AAWS specifically and AA in general have as much willful denial of criminal activity by members against other members as does the Catholic Church for reassigning child-molesting priests to new parishes.
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You can spout all the literature you wish. Anyone can write a book (I believe you have). After all, it is what pays you.
I have been sober 21 years in AA.. I don’t prey on anyone. Newcomer or old hand. I would also be the 1st to defend ANYONE being abused.Or that I was aware of their being abused.
As for the 12 Steps. If everyone, everywhere were to work these steps into their lives. Well, Mr. Bradley. You would be out of work… The program works if you work it. And if someone finds they’re not being listened to when they are abused. Tell someone else. Or better yet. The Police. There is no room in AA, NA or anywhere else form these predators.
But to persecute an entire organization! That’s not really fair.
Why don’t you go out on the street, Mr. Bradley. And pick up a few drunks, ,bring them into your home. Help them stay sober through their DT’s for a couple of days. Then write about that
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I agree with Ben. AA coercion has been going on with professionals since the 1970’s. Then Drug Court in 1989. All those millions being forced to go. AA would be very small without all that forced attendance. Plus forcing criminals too. Destroy…hmmm where did I say I was going to destroy AA. AA is imploding on itself . If it does not make Polices and procedures for safety they will all run back to small homie meetings sending NY AA nothing $$$$ and the remaining meetings will be so disgusting , filled with sexual and predatory criminals that even those who find themselves there will run to their computers and find the 15 or so ANTI AA informative blogs and never return.
Its like the saying” why Massive are you trowing out the baby with with the bath water. ” ? I say
“I am not. I am trowing out the dirty water and protecting the baby from the pedophiles. ” !
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let me throw up …
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Have no idea what the hell you are talking about when you ask where are the 1.2 million AA’s when WC time comes around. I replied they can’t all afford or have the health to go. As well, hotels are full. 75k at the stadium is the maximum allowed in the facility. Not how many are at the WC. You have an ax to grind. And I’m fine with that. But to ask such inane questions (which sound rhetorical btw) reduces your logic to innate hatred.
I am an AA, have been to several WC’s (even sat on the committee for 1) and still I don’t get your point re; only 75 k at conference. Do your homework
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i love aa. all this is a personal vendetta. we see it newcomers all the time who really want to drink. you all will go nowhere with this dumb site. there’s a couple million aa’S and the aaws has a powerful law firm. keep whining while the rest of us love AA.. WE LOVE AA AND HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS CARP YOU ALL ARE TALKING…
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buddi boi,
I thought that “denial” wasn’t a river in Egypt? You’ve obviously built quite a raft though and are floating along with eyes closed. I’ve seen all kinds of abuses in AA, I’m not some “failed aa who wants to drink” since I no longer consume alcohol. AA doesn’t need a powerful law firm, they need a wake up call. Bill W. himself said more will be revealed but AA persists in keeping eyes closed and trying to pound on anyone who shares a bad personal experience in AA, or the way AA is geared toward always blaming the victim.
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@ Buddi Boi- a/k/a Spammer- a/k/a Troll:
Yes, as AA meetings are generally indoors, and not held in lakes, it’s unlikely you would see any ‘carp’ in meetings…
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AAWS has a powerful law firm. Yea I bet they do .
They will need it when the masses file suits against them. I think The pope and The Catholic Church has a powerful law firm too. And yet the stories and still on going, lawsuits, in the hundreds of millions.
You love AA. So why are you on this site. This is for people who were 13 stepped or harmed by sexual predation and sexual harassment. That doesn’t t sound like you .
I can smell bullshit a mile a way. I was in AA was to long. I know your game, I know your talk, and I know the AA literature, structure and GSO in and out. I was a big AA geek.
as quoted from the Big Book A thought….in 1975 there were 1,000,000 members. In 2013 there are maybe 2,000,000 members world wide?
SO over 38 years AA didnt even double. Those are very bad numbers of success.
1.3 mil get court coerced to AA with a DUI against their 1 st amendment rights.
HOw many get driven there by a rehab?
Where is the real growth in AA?
I know so many with time and integrity who have all left AA these past 3 years. Many have stopped putting money in the basket.
Troll alert. GO back to your lovely meetings.
There are even news reports about financial scams in the millions in nice professional meetings in the investment banking industry in Texas and NY.
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AND ALL THIS DOES I SMAKE ME WORK THE STEPS AND SPONSOR HARDER. SO NOW I’VE FOUND THE PLACE WHERE THE MIDDLE CLASS GO TO VENT ABOUT AA AND WHY THEY CAN’T MAKE IT….
KEEP WHINING I LOVE TO READ IT. BTW I OWN AA AND FORBOD YOU, ANY OF YOU TO GO TO ANY AA MEETINGS….HAHAHAHAHAHA ——-> THAT WAS SARDONIC TO SHOW YOU THE POWER OF PEOPLE WRITING TO WORLD IS LIKE ME SAYING YOU CANNOT ATTEND MEETINGS. WE ARE POWERLESS. GO OR NOT GO NO ONE CARES…
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fyi writing in caps is like screaming in terms on the internet.
you said GO OR NOT GO NO ONE CARES… so why are you here? Fo to the blog ‘in the rooms” and preach to the choir! This is a site that helps those who have been harmed by AA or NA members or member who want to make it safer. That doesn’t sound like you.
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The sanest thing I ever did in my life was to leave AA. For me personally it was toxic and judgemental and I resented that when I “shared” I was expected to frame my “shares” in a way that made AA look like God’s gift to the Western World. (just a figure of speech, I mean no religious offence.) Leaving AA has made me feel lighter and freer and now that I am back on my meds I am able to contribute to society once more and this is something I cherish – I’m not giving that up for the program – and how creepy that sounds now – the program. These two words muttered together in numerous meetings on a daily basis sound so robotic and un-human. I am embarrassed that I ever referred to AA as the program.
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sunkist- sorry I remember!
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no it did get stuck in moderation mode for some reasons. I approved it right away! Love to see you hear. I think I know you.:)
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Massive: Yes of course you know me- when I first tried to post here, I found I couldn’t register with my usual email address, so I had to get a different one. I’m starmom/hotmail- the person who told you about the book I was writing a few months ago.
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oh goodness, I’m sorry- it wasn’t there when I posted my question, must have popped up afterward.
I’m not very good at figuring out WordPress sites
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its not its right here. Let me check for you.
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Hi Massive, I’m back again to raise more Hell and get people riled up. The “medication in AA” thing is off the topic of rapists in AA (and them being SENT to AA by judges as part of their “rehabilitation”), but the dangers in AA are many.
Read this, especially pages 5 and 6:
“The A.A. Member—Medications and Other Drugs”
Click to access p-11_aamembersMedDrug.pdf
I’ve read an earlier (before 2011, the second copyright date when it was apparently edited in some way – the original is 1984) version of that pamphlet when it said essentially the same thing.
Thanks to The Internet being so awesome, here’s the earlier version of that pamphlet:
Click to access p-11_aamembersMedDrug.pdf
This is an admission that AAWS knows damn well sponsors are telling sponsorees “You can’t be sober while you’re taking those pills, throw them out” (for those not intimately familiar with AA, “not being sober” is a horrible-guilt-ridden state of sin to be avoided at all cost), and all AAWS does is say something in a pamphlet about it.
The same text also spells one way (out of, IMHO SEVERAL ways) that AA participation leads to suicide.
So when you’re writing your letters to Attorney Generals, stop by the local clubhouse (maybe one you’ve never been to and while a meeting’s in progress so someone is less likely to corner you) and pick up a few copies of that pamphlet, and maybe a few others for good measure – once again, it’s:
The A.A. Member—Medications and Other Drugs
And/or print out the PDF and include the link to it in your letters.
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Ben, Massive, etc.:
Here’s where I’m at on the subject: BOTH A.A. & N.A. issue no-questions-asked approvals for anyone to begin a group- AND refuse to revoke the approvals even when they (headquarters) are made aware of criminal behaviors occurring in the group, often by the leaders. “Practicing medicine without a license” is only one example.
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I hope I’m not hogging too much space here, but if anyone’s interested in writing complaints to NY AG re: AA, you can find him here: http://www.ag.ny.gov/
And if you want to send a complaint to CA’s AG re: NA, her contact info is here: http://oag.ca.gov/home
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Why was the comment I posted (or TRIED to post) earlier today deleted?
n/m
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sunkist123 said ” BOTH AA & NA- do you think the AG’s of these programs’ headquarters’ states would be interested in hearing about the way Sponsors & other Oldtimers a) exert undue influence to prevent Newbies from taking medications prescribed by their doctors; b) exert undue influence to prevent people from going to and/or listening to their doctors; and c) ‘diagnose’ people when they have no qualifications to do so?”
Yes . Tell everyone to warn people at meetings to not give medical advice. tell them they can sue them for practicing medicine. No AA member had any right to tell another member what to take or not take. They are nuts. Write letter to NY AA and tell them they need to address this ridiculous practices. Post everywhere.
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these issues are older than you. it’s hum drum. besides the law firm that ah-ah has will win, trust me.
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buddi b- so this shit has been going on for 50 years and AA in NY has not warned the public or its members?
Liable….that makes them liable….
I dont think so. Not any more. AA is like the Catholic Church, The Boy Scouts, The Jerry Sandusky fiasco, Its become a antiquated institution. Filled with pedophiles, rapist, sick predatory old-timers, controlling abusive sponsors and Big Love kinda cult leaders like Clancy.
The party is over.
7 anti AA blogs are running reporting all the NEWS! Things just don’t disappear anymore.
OP gets over 3 million hits a month. Leaving AA gets 2 million a year. Blog talk radio safe recovery has over 105,000 listens and downloads.
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Not sure exactly where to post this, but felt the need to ‘share’ this info with you guys: when I approached A.A./GSO with an ‘issue,’ I was told it is the sponsor’s responsibility to help if anything happens, AND in most cases sponsors should be able to PREVENT these kinds of issues from occurring in the first place. (isn’t that a freakin’ riot?!?!)
The most important thing I learned from my own experiences: if you are up against any wrongful and/or criminal behavior, NEVER expect help from anyone in the programs- go to the police immediately.
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sunkist 123- you are so right. However there are some things you might do to help the situation
1. file a report with The State Attorney General in NY and in the state where the crap is going on…Complaining about what is going on in AA. Its a permanent record. ( My husband and I did this)
2. Write a letter of your grievance that is sent certified, return request, or just make a copy and send an email to NY GSO Headquarters as well.
This creates a paper trail. It will be needed in the future.
MAILING ADDRESS:
A.A. World Services, Inc.,
P.O. Box 459,
Grand Central Station
New York, NY 10163
(212) 870-3400
_______________________
OUR LOCATION:
A.A. World Services, Inc., 11th Floor
475 Riverside Drive at West 120th St.
New York, NY 10115
(212) 870-3400
I would also call and complain and post this everywhere including facebook and twitter so people feel empowered to protect new comers.
The idea that sexual predators get to hide in AA meetings is a crime. Pretend you are in a PTA or Chamber of Commerce Meeting. Then ask yourself, why am I not speaking up and saying ” cut that out” or why not stand up and warn the women.
Another question we have is ” where are the men in the program who will stand up to these predators?
Seriously most of them have left. My husband and many other men either only go to stagg meetings or they have left…period.
I will get the link to The NY State Attorney General’s website.
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hi Massive,
Let me toss in a question here that I brought up on the Daytona site:
re: BOTH AA & NA- do you think the AG’s of these programs’ headquarters’ states would be interested in hearing about the way Sponsors & other Oldtimers a) exert undue influence to prevent Newbies from taking medications prescribed by their doctors; b) exert undue influence to prevent people from going to and/or listening to their doctors; and c) ‘diagnose’ people when they have no qualifications to do so?
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YOU GUYSD ARE NOW MAKING ME LAUGH. THERE ARE MORE SEXUAL PREDATORS TEACHING ASCHOOL THAN IN AA. THAT’S A FACT. HAHAHA YOU GUYS WILL SAY ANYTHING TO JUSTIFY THIS BROADS FUCKING BOOK. MORE POWER TO HER.
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really? In school they do not tell you that you are powerless, and that you are broken and that you are sick from a hopeless made up disease.
No where in the world is like AA. No where. We all know that. OPen your eyes.
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The very few real friends I had in AA left before I did.
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ben-hi. 🙂
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Marie- good for you. It s really crazy that they use anonymity ( cover up ) when someone is violated, raped or assaulted. The Traditions are silly statements made up by Bill Wilson over 50 years ago, when AA was small and selective. No DUI’s were being sent there. No sex offenders, etc…AA members have been brainwashed to thinking their “Holier then ….traditions” are above the LAW. NO ONE is above the law in an AA meeting, in a Post Office or in a PTA Meeting!
I would paste his picture on a flyer and hand it out at meetings.
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‘silly statements’?? you really really know they were real and you are anti AA. those silly statements saved millions of lives. silly statements? long stretch to justify your stance
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no the silly traditions are lies. Half of them are not true today in 2013. I would argue with you except I have already done that in front of a huge AA GEN Service assembly and they are all living in some AA 1950’s bubble.
WHat part of OUR COMMON WELFARE IS RAPE AND 13 STEPPING SEXual harassing , child molesting, grabbing ladies boobs in meetings ……
Again AA has not saved millions of lives. THose people stopped drinking themselves. No one can make another person stop a behavior. They have to want to do it themselves. ANd if AA has truly a membership of 1,4 mil in the US and Canada why are their only 75,000 at the world conventions?
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Thank you for correcting her statements. She doesn’t know she’s talking about.
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I agree totally with what you have posted here and I think you are doing a great service, more power to you!
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ONLY 75000 at World Conference!. Do you have any idea how many hotels are sold out when there is a WC? ALL OF THEM!! and not everyone in AA can afford, or is healthy enough to travel. SO, please. Stop tarring everyone with the same brush. On another note. I do agree that any and all predators and/or 13 steppers need to be reported on.The traditions do not and never were are about protecting criminal activity
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hi al f. so were are the 1.2 million at the conference. there are only 75k…wow that s nothing compared to 800k…
AA is a weasel and is dying from within.
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Hi, I am in AA too. When I was assaulted, I told another man about it. I decided to go to the police and he said he could not give me the name of my assailant because it would violate his anonymity. I found the guy’s last name and went to the police. Many more people said that it was a really bad thing to break this guy’s anonymity and were very upset about it. I don’t care, though, assailants lose their privilege of anonymity when they break the law. My real friends in AA agree with me.
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The actual tradition says “anonymity at the level of press, radio, tv, and films”, so there is no anonymity at the level of law enforcement when someone commits a crime. They are even hiding behind a misconception of the literature they tell everyone to read!
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bcm- great analogy.
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Well I’m male and an ex-AA member and I say BRAVO!!!! to you for going to the police. Hiding behind anonymity is BS. What is an AA meeting, some kind of island off the coast of society where creepers get to do as they please? I say no, and that AA members are not above the law PERIOD. I hope whoever assaulted you paid for it via the legal system, and that you can somehow find healing.
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You absolutely did the right thing. Whoever was trying to shield the criminal under the tradition of anonymity didn’t understand the tradition. AA isn’t “sanctuary” . It’s where alcoholics go to get sober and recover. The meeting locations aren’t AA either.
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