Blogging Etiquette and more ways to skin a cat!!! Why was Stop13stepinaa blog created.

two_cats in sinkHI ALL. I have been  very busy this weekend.One of my children had a big birthday party 25- 30 ….20 somethings …. and I chose not to blog but I have noticed a few things.I created this site back in January of 2010 for AA / NA members who were in the program or had left who wanted to address sexual predation at any level or any abuses of any kind. 13 stepping , rape, mind control, Abusive sponsors. They are plenty of  people not in the rooms who were harmed by steppers as well. They are also welcome.I still feel there are many poeple still in AA very upset with what they see and don’t know what to do. They want to fix it. But AA in NY is useless except to sell books and make animated videos to recruit children.Rule #1 No saying F**K you to each other and no name calling.Now if in your anger you need to express yourself that way I don’t care.

Also, this is not a place to judge each others comments. PLease keep it to your own opinion, your experience.

Some of the bloggers are great typists and great writers. Some of us are not. My writing got better as I wrote more and took some writing coaching.

Nobody here is an expert. This is a personal blog. Mine.

Also, the environment I left in AA was nasty, so I am not going to tolerate a nasty blog … either from both the pro and anti AA court.

cat and ducks

Imagine that you were sitting with this blogger in a coffee shop. Would you say the same thing to their face? I doubt it…but maybe you would. But you need to stop saying that kind of stuff here. Its takes no courage to call names, judge people or say fuck you anonymously on a blog.

Enough said.

PLease move forward. I created this blog to actually help anyone hurt by 13 stepping and sexual predation. Although the issues have grown this is still the main focus here. I and many have other blogs that address that and have a zero tolerance policy for that. I have this blog still up and active primarily for the Activism, the support for people who have been 13 stepped or harmed.

My vision was and still is to see a useful blog which I did create to help create more safety and awareness in the 12 step rooms.

Have a nice day!


35 thoughts on “Blogging Etiquette and more ways to skin a cat!!! Why was Stop13stepinaa blog created.

  1. When my work first began I was talking with an NA board member who told me a story about a woman who called into the nA hotline. He went over there and raped her. NA began a process to change the service structure and they did. however, they did not implement safety policies. AA on th other hand voted to do nothing. No we are no all in California. I think they are both bad and have huge problems. AA and NA both. Although most of my work is about AA I do get a lot of posts and complaints about NA as well. I have called NAWS a few times and at least their General Service managers talked to me. In AA they just have their lackey call me back.

    I am recording men who have been preyed on. I just interviewed one the other day. GAY on GAY predatory is readlly bad and its all kept really quiet. If you have been the victim or want to write me more you can. Or you can tell the male victims in NA to contact me here at to tell me their stories. If anyone wants to interviewed for the film The 13 th step as well in in process of interviewing victims.

    take care.


  2. If you want dysfunction on a daily basis go to AA for 10 years or more. Life is about positive change not the same old stuff. Speak up if you see something that aint right


  3. go to leaving aa site and click on tools you will see the pamphlet there. also if you just put in Make AA Safer Pamphlet in the search place on this site it should come up. I can always pdf a copy to you .


      1. i read this article before. it is sad and awful. BUT… it takes two to tango and she was a grown women with a broken picker and childhood issues that no one in the program can cure, hell, they can’t even diagnose it properly. you’re dealing in large part with dysfunctional people who only play the tape of uneducated screwed up parents. she could have walked at any time. time to stand up and say it like it is: SHE WAS AN ADULT WITH A LOW CAPACITY FOR LEARNInG CORRECTLY AND PROCESSING DATA IN A NORMAL WAY. in a way that most normal people would know if you meet a guy in AA, the first thing to do is run! she stayed.

        anyone that has taken even intro into abnormal psych knows to stay away from male alcoholics in the rooms.


  4. Hi Everyone, I found this blog while looking for info on bullying. I’m so sorry you all had such bad experiences in AA. It’s definitely not for everyone. I am a current AA member and have been for nearly 7 years. Most of the time I love it, but sometimes things happen and I get frustrated.

    I agree that there is a high number of felons in AA. I believe it’s because as drunks and possibly drug addicts, some of us did things we may not have done sober. Sometimes we robbed strangers or our poor family members. I’m not sure if I’ve actually ever met a drug addict that didn’t steal money or property for drugs. And, of course, there are those “mental defectives” that were destined for a life of crime. Some of us have learned the hard way that because we share our personal experiences with these people week after week, doesn’t mean we should loan them $100 or let them borrow our car (or our 4 beautiful electric guitars-ouch). I would never loan money to the lady that used to sit next to me on the train every day, yet somehow we feel our fellow AA members are different.

    AA meetings are just like any other public meeting, and possibly even worse. There are bullies (my meeting), sexual perverts, brilliant inventors, doctors, rock musicians, the severely mentally ill, homeless, illiterate and yes, murderers (don’t think I’ve met one yet but who knows). Some have been in prison, most have been locked up at some point in their addiction. And yes, we do bring meetings to prisons, if they want them. A lot of inmates are drunks and/addicts that want help. If they’re sober when they leave, they’ll have a better chance of not reoffending.

    One of my favorite meetings was a room full of homeless, very mentally ill, transgendered people. At times it was hysterical and disturbing, but I loved it. I could stare addiction right in the eyes at that meeting. So many amazing stories. And many of them disappeared. Sometimes I was a bit nervous, but I never was left alone with men and all of the women looked out for each other. Just like in my current meeting. The women look out for each other and if there is a 13th stepper, they get an ass chewing if they even think about getting close to a female newcomer. As it should be. We look out for each other because we are like family, and for some of us it is our only family. It really breaks my heart that there are meetings out there that allow that to go on.

    The Traditions of AA are set up so that no one can be refused or kicked out (except where physical harm may occur, of course). Actually, AA meetings can do whatever they want in their meeting, that is one of the Traditions. They are suggested only, the groups themselves get to determine how they want to run their meeting by taking a group conscience. And the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. And we dont get to question that desire or if someone is even an alcoholic. So, we are going to experience some unsavory characters every now and again. But as I mentioned above, the women look out for women and men look out for men. At least in the meetings I go to.

    I really wish there was more we could do to keep only the real drunks and addicts in and the lunatics out. It’s disheartening knowing that AA is linked to these awful experiences. But in my experience, that isn’t the AA I know. If AA were to start screening their members, I have a feeling there wouldn’t be anyone left. The screening would start out with good intentions, but would eventually evolve into race, income, education, etc. AA works because its all inclusive and they just focus on the newcomer.

    Wow, I’m sorry I hijacked your blog! I respect you all for sharing your experiences with AA and If I offended anyone, I apologize. That wasn’t my intention. I wish you all the best with your sobriety. I’ll probably stop by again, if you’ll let me. I’m super curious how non-AA’s get and stay sober. Would love to hear how you all do it. I know nothing of other programs out there.

    Would love to see the Make AA Safer pamphlets. Is it online anywhere?



    1. hi nordick chick. No this not because AA is filled with felons. AA did not use to be filled with felons.

      AA meetings are nothing like these other public places you are talking about. AA meetings are very strange places where people sit too close too soon, Holding hands with strangers, telling you your best thinking got you here…on and on with 1930’s bullcrap.

      Im tried of hearing pp say this crap you have written here. Its nonsense. Perhaps this blog is not a match for you.Maybe GO to some pro AA blog and talk about how great AA is….this is a place for people who have been hurt by AA sexual predators or predatory behavior in AA or for members who want to make it safer in general.

      Take care.


    2. interesting observations. but here’s one about female 2 hatters. these women come in the rooms, decide to get their CAC degree or some such nonsense certificate below a bachelors degree, in alcoholism and then work in treatment centers.

      then something funny happens. they meet a fresh out of prison parolee and plan to get married. some of the women are murdered by their DUDE, some barely escape. so question: WHO’S THE PREDATOR?!

      i’ve seen it about a dozen times.

      time to stand up and forget the gender, there are predators of both sexes you can trust me on that.


  5. @Massive: how about no one individual’s experiences speak for or represent ‘everybody’s’ experiences?
    With that in mind, ‘my’ experiences were entirely different than CoP’s- I’ve been in numerous different locations, and the ‘dysfunction’ & ‘predators” I encountered ‘in the rooms’ were not represented in ‘the outside world.’
    If this had simply been a matter of the person expressing his/her viewpoint, I would have said very little, but my beef was him/her saying he/she speaks from experience and I don’t… I assure you I have plenty of experience on this subject.


    1. All these recovery programs are the same as the outside world. They are only microcosims. You meet the same dysfunction at the supermarket that you do in ‘ the rooms’. The predators in all cases are both male and female. So you learn to stand up for yourself or you fall- thats the same anywhere


      1. (statements, not ‘debate’):
        1. I almost ‘foam at the mouth’ at words like ‘anywhere,’ etc., that implies one universal standard;
        2. While you’re entitled to your opinion, including opinions based on your experiences, that doesn’t mean someone else’s experiences don’t exist.


      2. canofp – I disagree. I will bb later to explain more. I really hate this over all blanket statement. But I need more some to back up my opinion and why I feel this way.


      3. cop- ok…All these recovery programs are the same as the outside world.

        No they are not. No where do people hold hands with strangers, tell them they are powerless, do newly sober woman arrive with the lowest self esteem of their lives looking for help in THAT room.

        No where do people tell strangers in an arrogant way ” we know better then you ” Only we can help you” .

        Imagine going into a Chamber of Commerce meeting and someone telling you to turn your will and life over to a light bulb to build your business.

        The other 6 free options are nothing like AA. Ok maybe WFS I hear is a bit like it but ….

        you said ….You meet the same disfunction at a super market?

        WHAT? NO you don’t. You don’t sit in a circle in the super market, holding hands, talking to any of them. I dont hug anyone in the Market. DO any of you.

        That is wacko nonsense. Maybe you dont belong here. Now that I read this last post of your. This is not a place to fight about is AA good or not. Is AA like a superf**King Market.

        Its not. Just go….”Into The Rooms” you will be welcomed with open arms.


  6. Massive,

    Do you think AntiD, sunkist and myself were unfair or worse bullying Paula? Do you think we were behaving like 13yr. olds or Adults?

    Let’s get one thing out of the way, there is nothing wrong with Paula’s writing (other than her foul language and personal attacks that have been deleted); she was untruthful and not upfront about her ability to comment with proper grammar. At this point since her comments have been deleted; it kind of looks like we were bullying her. Very confusing!! I have never insulted anyone who struggles to get their point across. I know all to well that it takes time. However that was not the case with Paula. She was playing games.

    I cant speak for antiD and sunkist but I dont regret anything I said to her. She was being nasty. Basing from what i have read; she is still in the rooms because she believes in AA. It’s not for me but to each his own.

    Actually what Im really interested in is the answer to my first to questions. Im confused and I feel like there has been a spin on things here. Certainly, I could be wrong. Once again: I cant speak for antiD and sunkist but personally i felt like i was being reprimanded. and I was insulted. I didnt appreciate it at the time and I still dont. Believe me, I have a busy life too and i have no problem letting the whole thing go. However, i am curious and i no matter what Im confronted with; I try very hard not to jump to any conclusions.


    1. Well, I certainly didn’t bully her- the only statement I made to her was re: people who are dependent on *A after so many years don’t generally gain much from it, & I didn’t bother replying to her insistence that I ‘owed’ her an apology, because my days of being intimidated by AA/NA individuals are LONG since over.


    2. I do not regret a thing I said to Paula for the record either. Luckily I do not need to be an expert to come to certain common sense conclusions, or at least an educated opinion to express my experience and knowledge dealing with 12 steppers.

      Blogs about AA and NA and the dysfunction and crimes that go along with having been apart of 12 step groups, are not always going to be a “happy” place. These are serious matters that can stir strong emotions and debate.

      Particularly when people like Paula want to cuss other bloggers out and minimize the need for safety measures for teens and other bloggers experiences etc.


      1. paula is bringing MAKE AA SAFER Pamphlets to her meeting. We mailed them to her. I hope we all can get along. We all have out path, our passion and our point of view.
        She is now probably getting the same dirty looks Kali and I got. God bless all of us who try in ever way to make it safer for people who suffer with any of the problems around alcohol and drugs.

        anti d you have done much good work outside the rooms. All of it matters.


  7. All I have to say is that Paula is still in the “rooms” and I wish to help those who are still in there with literature, experience and such that I personally worked very hard at while I was in the rooms.

    The work I did with Kali was important and ground breaking. No one had ever put on a MAKE AA SAFER WORKSHOP. I did it. So ….Regardless of how I feel about how dangerous AA is and I know you know that I know…Paula has come to this site for a reason.

    And even if she and I disagree on a few things, if I can support her, in trying raise awareness and “get her back” while still “In the rooms” I want to do that. I want to give her a place to come to and get ideas that are new to her meeting area and her meeting place.

    If one person feels supported and goes to the police for a rape or assault…..many many women will be safer.

    Thats all Im saying. I m not here to criticize spelling or typos or anything like that. I don’t care about that. I do care about woman being murdered liked Karla Brada, and Kristine and Saundra Cass, and many being raped, assaulted and bullied by mind controlling idiot sponsors with nothing better to do. Its a big job. The less fighting here…. the more we will get done.

    Thanks for listening.:) Paula, Anti D and aafree…sunkist…


  8. I wanted to address this comment in the thread:

    “Imagine that you were sitting with this blogger in a coffee shop. Would you say the same thing to their face? I doubt it…but maybe you would. But you need to stop saying that kind of stuff here. Its takes no courage to call names, judge people or say fuck you anonymously on a blog.”

    I totally agree! Maybe Paula is powerless over the control of her manners too.


  9. AntiD,

    Paula already went on a rampage and it was clear that she respected no ones opinion. SHE WAS THE ONE PERSONALLY ATTACKING OTHERS. Very manipulative with the spelling facade.

    I would like to say; I meant “NO INSULT” to you Massive when I said; if it were my blog, Paula would be ban”. I know you were not aware. I would have left her comments; as a reminder of how inappropriate certain pro-aa’s can be. In addition to her mean, rude personal attacks, she has proved that she was playing a game with her inability to spell. I have never spoken to anyone on the blog while using foul language. However, I know some pro-aa’s have. I try to always get my point across without using foul language.

    Now Paula is back pretending like she did nothing wrong. I do not regret anything i said to her. She ask for it and she deserved the responses she got. She was one who came on the blog swinging. Others were only pointing out the insanity of her comments and if need be; defending themselves. Careful not to apologize if you dont mean it; Paula. Tell your sponsor, she will listen.


      1. AntiDenial,

        i just expanded on your comments; which I agreed with. I had to get out on this beautiful sunny day and take care of business. When I came back; Paula had hung herself.

        Interesting how manipulators think no one is aware of their behavior. Some people “Get It”.

        I hope Paula is sincere but Im not convinced. Paula; Many are very naive when they encounter the rooms of AA and Do Not Know How To Deal With Predators. Maybe they didnt graduate from the street smart university. You say people are adults; yet their treated as less than while being told that “their best thinking got them there”. Make up your mind. If your speaking up and defending them as you say; Well, I commend you for that. However, I know for a fact that most dont. If they say anything, it’s very indirect and the victim has to try and determine whats going on. Many times the men in the good old boys (old timer) club joke about it. I can attest to that. It’s not that difficult to make some changes that would protect minors and vulnerable people.

        One more thing, I mange to protect myself; so I dont have a grudge. I guess I was fortunate and had learned some survival skills.


  10. I agree no one i apologize for the lanuage i am not a closed minded person i worked in rehab i had clients that did recovery without aa or na. Yes i do find immaturity. Amongst all walks of life. Yes you have to becareful how you entertain people on the internet. Some people are going through serious stuff. They do not need to be ganged on. i feel people are adult enough to find their path. Aa is a stepping stone. To get better. I also seen many relaspe because humans are fallible. Yes we have players in the rooms. I also seen miracles. I graduated from streetsmart university. I do know how to handle myself against predators. When i see yes i speak up. I also keep focused on myself. Its dangerous for me to go on a rampage. I respect everyones opinion. I should not be personally attacked.


    1. ” It’s dangerous for me to go on a rampage”

      Paula- what is that supposed to mean?

      I certainly did not see you respecting my opinion and you were doing lots of personal attacking. Just sayin…….

      Checking your punctuation and spelling for correctness would help those of us that have a hard time reading what you are trying to write and say.


  11. Hey guys i just got back from outdoors in the sunshine! I totally understand that some people are better writers and spellers. I have my own share of honest mistakes. I will note though it is a troll tactic to misspell on purpose to annoy. I have read on other sites that ask people to check for punctuation etc. As far as blogging etiquette, it is improper and rude to be a super sloppy speller. So I only bring it up when it appears people are either doing it on purpose, or they are being very, very sloppy, as in this case. One thing that is great about the Orange Papers site and you can correct mistakes if you find them afterwards.

    I also cannot sit back and not respond to someone saying you do not have to worry about the teens in AA. It is just not true. Teens are not safe in AA, NA or ICYPPA! Actually everyone is at risk on some level.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s